Thierry's Lore Tidbits

Thierry Boulanger, the main director and writer of Sea of Stars, has provided small pieces of lore in the official Discord server. This is a compilation of important lore tidbits not explicitly mentioned within the game itself.

March 14, 2020

Conversation

#general
Started
Later
Thierry	Hey you got the X
Thierry	A couple of these scrolls have a letter at the bottom right
Chemosha	does it mean something?
Chemosha	and heyo Thierry
Started
Started	@Thierry what does x mean
Thierry	it was an ARG longshot
Thierry	if everyone who had a letter happened to share they could have unscrambled the annoucement date and name of the next game
Thierry	but that's all happening next thursday so shrug
Started	Well could of said that
Thierry	that's not where the fun is
Soleil	whaaaaaaaa
Soleil	That's crazy
Chemosha	like a treasure map :V
Soleil	X and T are the only ones I see
Soleil	I thought they were smilies
Started	wait does this mean I need all scrolls to complete my collection? Thierry react:
Started	someone ik has this on his
StarHawk	WHOA
StarHawk	Arg thing
StarHawk	Dang we kinda missed that
StarHawk	Well we know there’s an X in the name now
StarHawk	That’s something
Soleil	and T
StarHawk	I guess
Soleil
Thierry	pardon me it was the date and name

Takeaways

• Some of the scrolls that were bundled with Special Reserve Games's The Messenger Bokken Signature Bundle had a letter written in the lower-right corner. If every player who had one shared their letter, the letters could have been unscrambled to reveal Sea of Stars's name and announcement date ahead of time.

March 19, 2020 (#1)

Conversation

#general
Dagem	In a little over an hour, I'll have a good idea whether or not I'll want to speedrun the game currently known as "sos"
Later
StarHawk	it obviously stands for "supreme overpowered speedrunning"
Soleil	The game has an x in the title, saxophone?
Boo	Speedrunning of Speedruns
Boo	Faaaaasts
StarHawk	oh shoot i forgot about that x
StarHawk
Dagem	Super Omega Solstice
Thierry	There's no X, Soleil
StarHawk
Later
Thierry	The scrolls contained the date (Spring Equinox) and title
Later
Brokemia	Secret of Sotheresnox
StarHawk	ohhh so the x was for equinox
Dagem	and title BRB going to the wiki
Thierry	yes yes
StarHawk	that makes a lot more sense
Soleil	I've been scammed Thierry react:

Takeaways

• The message hidden within the Special Reserve Games's The Messenger Bokken Signature Bundles was "SEA OF STARS" and "SPRING EQUINOX."

March 19, 2020 (#2)

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
Walrsu	do all the Dwellers have a specific name?
Walrsu	since we have Dweller of Woe and Dweller of Torment
Later
Thierry	Yes they all have a name
Thierry	But there aren't a lot of them
Thierry	Only one or two active at any given time

Takeaways

• All Dwellers have a name.
• Only one or two Dwellers are active at any given time.

March 23, 2020

Conversation

#general
Passion	Chumkayoo
Passion	Where do you come up with these names, do you set up an alphabet on a dart board and let it fly? :U
Passion	This one is... Oggleflopples.
Thierry	Hahaha
Thierry	If you must know it's spelled in a way that will make english speakers say "pebble buddy" in Québécois
Later
Passion	Can we call him Pebble Buddy!?
Papy	PEBBLE BUDDY
Thierry	Of course
Passion	He's my pebble buddy NO TOUCHY
Papy	with how they're described, it seems like you really shouldn't touchy Thierry react:
Passion	Pebble Buddy Thierry react:

Takeaways

• Chumkayoo's name is spelled in a way that would make an English speaker say "pebble buddy" in Québécois.

April 6, 2020

Conversation

#general
Exempt-Medic	Do we have a pronunciation on Valere? or Zale for that matter
Later
Thierry	It's val-air
Sol	Oh!
Soleil	aaaaaahhh
Exempt-Medic	Is that val like in valve? Thierry react:
Later
Thierry	Zale should be 1:1 with english
Thierry	like tale or dale
Sol	awesome!
Sol	I thought that those names were gonna give me trouble but those pronunciations aren't hard at all.
Thierry	Stay tuned

Takeaways

• Valere is pronounced like "val-air."
  • This contradicts the Sabotage Studio official website's Streamer Kit, which pronounces it like "vuh-lee-r."
• Zale is pronounced like "z-ay-l." It rhymes with "tale" or "dale."
• Thierry hints that there exist characters with difficult-to-pronounce names.

April 8, 2020

Conversation

#mooncradle
Babushka	do you think it's safe to assume that and are teenagers?
Later
Chemosha	I thought they're teenagers
Babushka	same
Babushka	I don't think they are older than 20 Thierry react:
Later
Thierry	Old enough to be capable, young enough to have a lot of room to grow to their full potential. The actual number is open for interpretation as providing specifics could ruin either of those two points for some people.

Takeaways

• Zale and Valere are not older than 20 years old.

April 13, 2020

Conversation

#announcements
Thierry	@everyone Here we are with the promised area reveal update! To celebrate 1 million, we are ditching all social media goals and will provide two additional updates: a lore primer for those who haven’t been in the loop (TWOL), and third playable character reveal! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sabotagestudio/sea-of-stars/posts/2810308

#general
JustDenys1	Great, we live in Minecraft houses
Later
Thierry	They're made of glass!
Later
Thierry	Sunroof all day every day in Mooncradle
Later
Gooberbarbarian	Wait the houses are made of glass..?
Thierry	the roofs

Takeaways

• Mooncradle houses have roofs made out of glass.

April 14, 2020

Conversation

#mooncradle
Sardek	from the lore tidbit they dropped today, Mooncradle is definitely more full on this discord
Papy	justtttt maybe
Storme the Cat	hahaha yeah, we might be more than four houses and a school
Storme the Cat	I think canonically, all the Solstice Warriors in the ARG are dead by the events of Sea of Stars, leaving only three left and a rather large crypt.
DoubleA	Who's the third?
DoubleA	Oh wait its moraine
Storme the Cat	I think it might be Garl? It's actually fairly vague. That, or I haven't been paying enough attention.
Papy	garl isn't a solstice warrior
DoubleA	Garl was mentioned to be a regular kid
Papy	he just happened to be born in the mooncradle
Later
Thierry	Garl isn't special
Thierry	Also Zale and Valere are not counted in the three as they are still kids in the context of today's description
Storme the Cat	Oh!
Storme the Cat	Was I right about the ARG thing though?
Thierry	It's more parallel
Thierry	There were also way more people in the ninja village channel than you saw in The Messenger's intro :p

Takeaways

• Garl is not a Solstice Warrior. He is an ordinary kid.
• Kickstarter update #8 mentions that, "As they would soon find out, the world was down to only three Solstice Warriors." The three Solstice Warriors are Headmaster Moraine, Erlina, and Brugaves. Zale and Valere aren't counted among the three remaining Solstice Warriors because they are children at the time of the headcount.
• The ARG timeline is parallel to the Sea of Stars timeline.
• The number of Discord users with the "Solstice Warrior" role that have access to the #mooncradle text channel is much larger than the number of Solstice Warriors living in Mooncradle in Sea of Stars. Similarly, the number of Discord users with the "Ninja" role that have access to the #ninja-village text channel is much larger than the number of ninjas that live in Ninja Village in The Messenger.

April 16, 2020 (#1)

Conversation

#announcements

Thierry

Only 48 hours left! Today’s update is a look at the origins of the world of Sea of Stars, a lore primer called “The Two Alchemists”. As some of you have read it before through the ARG, we added a couple extra illustrations to have something fresh for everyone! Get ready for the final update tomorrow, where we will be revealing a third combat character. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sabotagestudio/sea-of-stars/posts/2812212

#general
Thero1st	Is that a Final Fantasy reference ? Thierry react:

Takeaways

• The final image of Kickstarter update #10, "Prologue - The Two Alchemists," depicts books from the Great Archives. The front cover of one of the books displays the portrait of a young-looking character with spiky hair and a sword on their back. This is not a Final Fantasy reference.

April 16, 2020 (#2)

Conversation

#general
VeggieDelphine	Just finished reading the prologue ! that's a great story, can't wait to find out more !
VeggieDelphine	Do we know the timeline of the events, in this prologue ?
Thierry	Cheers Delphine!
Later
Thierry	You mean how far before the events of SoS?
Later
VeggieDelphine	Yes
Thierry	It's in the thousands of years, but not hundreds of thousands like between SoS and Messenger
VeggieDelphine	I love that !
Thierry	So Mooncradle has been there for a long time, there have been countless generations of solstice warriors
Later
Thierry	Long enough to get bored with immortality and turn into an archvillain I guess :p
Later
ripjaw345	but were messengers a thing during that time period
Thierry	no @ripjaw345

Takeaways

• The events of The Two Alchemists happened thousands of years before Sea of Stars.
• The events of Sea of Stars happened hundreds of thousands of years before The Messenger.
• There have been countless generations of Solstice Warriors before the events of Sea of Stars.

June 22, 2020

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
Soleil	@StarHawk
StarHawk	yea
StarHawk	i knew that was the one
StarHawk	they are a bit spooky arent they
Matehiqu	they get less spooky the more i look at them
Matehiqu	but they are creepy
Thierry	Hey that's a tsiclop
Thierry	Or I guess three tsiclops
Matehiqu	Tsiclop
Thierry	Tsiclopses?
Matehiqu	that's a cool name
Chemosha	they're funny and spook at the same time
Thierry	it's pronounced tsee-clup

Takeaways

• Tsiclop is pronounced like "tsee-clup."

August 28, 2020

Conversation

#sos-speedrunning
Kyleberry	hey guys! I couldn't sleep this morning so I played with my friend, Kunus'nuku a bit - Wanted to share my best fight so far with 2x gambler's earrings at level 1: https://youtu.be/LfkcencwHM4
Kyleberry	btw what is the acolyte's actual name?
Kyleberry	it seems kinda rude that I'm just calling them by their branch of whatever they worship
Kyleberry	or it's a tribal affiliation? I don't know. What I do know is that the fight is very fun and that there may be some risky hope here for those, like me, who fear needing two excellent 'rangs in one fight
Thierry	we just call her the lizardess
Thierry	Kunus'nuku is an evil goddess, long gone but still has worshippers
Thierry	(might still be a bit early for that please don't tell wiki gang)

Takeaways

• The Kunus'nuku Acolyte is internally referred to as the "Lizardess."
• Kunus'nuku is a long-gone evil goddess that still has worshipers.

February 8-11, 2021

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
Thierry	For clarity and retroness reasons, SP was officially renamed to MP
Later
Lojemiru	I personally liked SP (Solstice Points sounds way cooler than generic Magic Points imo) but clarity is key, and yeah it's pretty traditional. If other characters have magic powers than it makes even more sense to change it - either way, game will be good so this nitpicky tangent of mine has gone on long enough.
Crystal	all this time, i thought it was spell points
Thierry	it's an intricate one for sure, MP might not even be the final one, it's just where it's at for now. part of the process is letting things sit there as you play it everyday and once it's annoyed you one too many times you know it might be good to change it
Thierry	SP was for skill points since not all special skills are technically spells. It was also useful because SP doesn't behave like what you'd assume from MP (the fact that it's low numbers and that it replenishes when you attack), but after letting it simmer it now feels like MP is a more natural fit to instantly understanding that "you can spend this to do something powerful and/or situational". Still feel like it might add friction to being open to the idea that it doesn't behave exactly like classic MP though so big
Thierry	Anyone felt like SP was weird or unclear playing the demo?
Thierry
Crystal	perhaps at first but as the demo went on, it was intuitive to figure out what was used for what. i get hit and lose some of HP, keep it above zero. i use non-melee attack, now i lost some of this resource. only thing that kept being unclear was how much of this resource would i regenerate for next battle. but the resource itself and what was it used for wasnt unclear, imo Thierry react:
Thierry	Oh and one final consideration is we have AP (assist points for combo attacks), SP and AP don't coexists really well since they are both less common, wheras HP/MP is your clear bread and butter then AP can exist in your mind as "the special one" instead of "which is it again?"
Sage	I've been playing Divinity: Original Sin 2 lately and this has come up, since each skill costs a certain amount of AP or Action Points, which refill each turn, and some cost Source Points or SP, which have to be recharged outside combat. I think as long as the tooltips are clear and consistent with what you're about to spend (AP represented as green circles and SP as blue diamonds) then the nomenclature will become accepted regardless
Sage	but maybe if you can somehow tie the nomenclature to the context of the game (like Source driving the main plot of Divinity), that's a plus
heckacentipede	i prefer it as skill points! MP doesn't make sense for non-spells, they're skills that you're doing. so long as the section with skills is labeled as skills (rather than magic) then i don't see it being confusing in a way that matters
heckacentipede	especially since, for me, i often don't look at the actual labels the game is using so much as i'm looking at the actual bars themselves
Crystal	Sage: I've been playing Divinity: Original Sin 2 lately and this has come up, since each skill costs a certain amount of AP or Action Points, which refill each turn, and some cost Source Points or SP, which have to be recharged outside combat. I think as long as the tooltips are clear and consistent with what you're about to spend (AP represented as green circles and SP as blue diamonds) then the nomenclature will become accepted regardless but you have to careful there too. on the other hand, when i played xenonauts, where every soldier has its own big pool of Action Points, which regenerates between turns only partially, for moving, positioning, interacting and attacking. it can get overwhelming, managing that 1 big pool for all your actions, instead of having separate dedicated pools for movement, attacks and interactions. you dont want to bloat it but also shouldnt[imo] want to dump all these points on player and let them decide how to allocated it, which will require lot of trial and error[i see ive gone bit offtopic for sos]. i dont think the current[what we had in demo] system is bad or wrong, it works very intuitively. and as far as naming convention goes, even chrono trigger was struggling with this and renamed a lot of things when rereleased on nds
heckacentipede	octopath traveler also has SP rather than MP, so i'll go over and ask an octopath server i'm on if anyone had any difficulties understanding SP as functionally similar to MP
Thierry	Appreciate all these comments!
heckacentipede	a'ight asked the OT server and they more or less agreed with me, that the specific term isn't that important and what matters more is the general visuals things like green=health=big bar and blue=magic/skill=small bar or x/y amounts
heckacentipede	beign able to see that your SP is depleted, like in this screenshot, is very helpful Thierry react:
heckacentipede	i'm assuming these screenshots are rather old, but this (only having a health bar) would be confusing, no matter what the __ points were called
StarHawk	after playing cyber shadow, I am well accustomed to seeing the word SP
Zelus	@Thierry In my honest opinion, SP makes more sense, it has a background (Solstice Points which I like, or perhaps Soul Points (As each character is using their own form of energy, which might better connect them with other characters), which feels more immersive when mentioned by other characters. That being said it also feels slightly awkward with MP, and while perhaps it could be interesting as it is retro, SP felt like something that Sea of Stars brought to the table that just felt good seeing. AP seems to make sense and fit, but I feel like I would want to see a little more gameplay before I can write it off as natural sounding?.Regardless, I liked the AP concept. Not going to nitpick too much unless you'd prefer me to, as I trust the team's judgement at the end of the day. If you don't mind my asking, (unless it's too spoiler or something), what is the concept behind each character's abilities outside of the solstice warriors. Is it magic, some kind of ability people are born with, a blessing, arcane energy, other people harnessing solar and lunar energy into more commonly widespread means or so on?
Storme the Cat	I thought SP stood for Special Points
Thierry	SP is likely to be the one since MP is already annoying me lol
Thierry	it's Skill Points
Thierry	The thing you spend in the Skills menu
Thierry	There's no overall magic currency since it has to be able to come down to Garl throwing an apple :p
Storme the Cat	That makes sense
Thierry	I kinda like MP because it means what it does indirectly
Thierry	But cannibalizes on the energy you can use for boosting which so far is called "live mana"
Thierry	so SP was also to prevent two types of mana
Zelus	Is there a "Mana system" that commonpeople or mages use in society in SoS or something like that? That's why I thought you might have gone to MP
Thierry	But these are just dev ramblings, my insomnia thoughts just spill in the channels sometimes
Thierry	I dunno about societal mages
Thierry	it's more about sign and feedback
Thierry	is the relevant question what it means, or what it does?
Chemosha	good evening Thierry!
Thierry	and the right answer is whatever gets the player in a state of flow
Thierry	so MP kinda makes sense there
Thierry	but it's technically annoying to spend "magic points" to throw an apple
Thierry	and it's definitely "skills" and not "spells" in the menu to reflect that
Thierry	so SP makes the most sense
Zelus	Wouldn't "Soul or Skill Points" make more sense then, the only reason I bring up Soul is it answers all the issues as each character has different ways to fight
Thierry	but given AP (assist points for combo attacks) that makes two less common abbreciation to ask the player to memories and understand at a glance while making decisions
Zelus	Therefore it even ties into the world being how each person's "Soul" dictates their ability and style of battle
Thierry	maybe I explained this wrong but SP did stand for skill points in continuity with the skills menu
Zelus	I'm probably overthinking this then, but are skills generally "Anything" then?
Zelus	Like cooking a pizza?
Thierry	I'm not wondering where magic or special abilities come from that's completely beside the point
Thierry	I'm musing about messaging and clarity when interfacing with the player
Zelus	I think whichever you can develop a system behind to immerse your choice into the world it makes sense
Zelus	Because it'd feel weird to have MP but not be able to explain how an apple is "Magic"
Thierry	skills are a special action (so not a regular attack) that you can do in combat and has a special cost attached to it for pacing and to make you look for the perfect opportunity, they're also more powerful so they shouldn't be spammable otherwise you'd always do that
Zelus	That makes sense, the angle I'm wondering though is are skills then in an immersed form, things that each individual specializes at
Zelus	Because then I think SP just fits
Zelus	Because 'I'm Assuming" people aren't summoning healing apples with mana and rather pulling them out of a bag or something "as their specialization aka Skill
Thierry	I'll try one last time because I do believe these questions are interesting: -MP is great because anyone who's played an RPG before understands "I can spend this to do a stronger cooler thing but I should pace myself", but has the drawback that it doesn't make 100% sense once you think of it since not all skills are is magic spells -SP is great because it means skill points, the points you spend to use special skills, but have the drawback that some player won't pick up what it implies in terme of usability and gameplay. So it's clear right away versus making more sense in the end. Short term vs long term. That's all
Thierry	I feel bad for making you overthink this lol I swear 100% of the considerations are in that last paragraph
Papy	honestly as long as the menu is good then it's fine
Zelus	Skill Points fundamentally fit what you are attempting in my opinion because they aren't meant to be a source of POW POW Magic bolt, but rather a "Powerful Action that you can perform and makes you look for the perfect opportunity"
Thierry	I'm not looking to justify how magic or skills work in that world, that's cannon since ~1996
Thierry	It's really 100% about UX
Papy	like seeing the mini sp bar with a different color instantly puts in my head "ok this is another resource that I can use and has limited supply"
Papy	and limited supply = more powerful action Thierry react:
Zelus	You explained it best yourself Thierry, they aren't magical abilities, but rather abilities to gain the edge in combat I think that SP is fundamentally different than MP
Thierry	I don't think I said they weren't magical abilities
Thierry	I'm saying not all of them are
Zelus	Oops I meant not all
Papy	words/titles can be helpful, but honestly colors are the most intuitive
Thierry	so, one last last time
Thierry	SP makes more sense when it comes to lore, but might have more friction for the player to get what it is
Thierry	MP is instantly understood but makes less sense with the lore
Storme the Cat	I think SP makes more sense because then you don't have to call things that aren't magical Magic. Plus, I'm actually used to seeing whatever the special points are being called whatever makes sense for the game, not necessarily magic. Like how in Paper Mario it's called Flower Points (FP)
Zelus	As you seem to not want these "Skills" to be spammable, and used to create powerful situations, SP draws me in instantly
Thierry	that's a great example Storme
Thierry	and the fact they have Star Points on top of it is actually what makes me hopeful that SP and AP can coexist clearly in the player's mind
Zelus	Indeed it was Storme
Storme the Cat	I think I've also heard of SP being used in some games as Special Points before, although I can't think of any example. As long as you refer to its name in full as Skill Points when talking about the Skills menu sometime early in the game I'll have that in mind and remember that's what SP stands for for the rest of the game.
Zelus	@Storme the Cat Disgaea and The Mario Bros Games have Special Points abbreviated as SP
Storme the Cat	I've never played Disgaea, but regardless that supports my point.
Zelus	Yep, nor have I played Disgaea, but I've heard about it, thanks for reminding me about the Flower Point thing, I almost forgot
Thierry	It'd be fine if you never know the actual meaning, or for it to mean something else for you as long as you connect it to its function properly (fine in terms of designer and player engaging in the dance)
Thierry	It's written in full form on the level up screen though!
Storme the Cat	While I think that it's nice to understand what points function how even if I didn't read anything, I think it would actually really help make the connection of what's what seeing it written out at least once.
Thierry	Oh for sure, at least for certain types that's a must and thus absolutely present. The overarching issue is still which gets you into a state of flow the fastest though, making everything is fleshed out and explained for those who will care to look is "easy"
Thierry	It's more about that initial pick up and onboarding experience being as frictionless as possible, which might be hindered by a less common term, which even though it makes more sense once you care, might be confusing and prevent you from ever caring, if that makes sense
Thierry	I just thought it might be interesting for some to see how much one can obsess over two simple letters, let alone an entire game
heckacentipede	i get the impression that you're going to have to talk to people who just don't play video games to see what istruly the simplest least confusing option but, i don't think the uncommon term matters, because you're using common formatting to flag "hey this is This Kind of resource point"
Storme the Cat	That's actually not a bad idea.
Thierry	the simplest is absolutely MP especially given that the target audience is not people who don't play games
Thierry	the question is really "is it worth asking for a bit of their patience at first so it works out best in the end, or is there a risk of them never getting to that point"
Thierry	but I don't think it's a big enough issue, you just pick it up and roll with it
heckacentipede	my assumption is that people familiar with HP/MP/SP/AP/PP/resource points in general are going to be so used to the concept that switching the specific terms isn't going to cause too much resistance, if any at all
Papy	^
Thierry	there's a whole bunch of considerations around what's usual and much friction players are willing to accept Just For Your Game
Thierry	If you're Final Fantasy, call it whatever you want, people are here to stay
Thierry	But you're talking to these players without being "it", you have to pay respect to some points of references to make them comfortable even if it's not the absolute best for your thing, as you might lose them entirely and not get to make games for a living anymore
Thierry	All slightly exaggerated to get the point across of course
Thierry	But that's still a bigger part of game design than I assumed at first
Thierry	@heckacentipede: my assumption is that people familiar with HP/MP/SP/AP/PP/resource points in general are going to be so used to the concept that switching the specific terms isn't going to cause too much resistance, if any at all Totally agree there, don't you feel MP has less friction than SP though?
Thierry	That's the kind of data I'm into
Thierry	(or looking for atm)
heckacentipede	like i said earlier, if you deviated from the common formatting, you might be in trouble (the AP actually falls into this, since it's not common or intuitive). but, since SP uses the same formatting as MP in other games, you're fine. and i say this recognizing (sleepily) that my personal experience+the experiences of people who have pursued hanging out in video game discord servers are not necessarily the best source since they're biased towards getting+enjoying games in general in the context of SOS, for me, MP and SP have equivalent friction, with MP being less immersive
Thierry	MP is definitely less immersive for SOS, I'm just not clear on how much friction SP has compared to MP
Thierry	To you they're even?
Zelus	Completely agree, in my case MP feels a little more awkward, but certainly iconic, while SP feels suitable
Papy	yes, mp has less friction than sp, but the amount of friction sp has is pretty minimal due to how often other names for mp are used in rpgs Thierry react:
Zelus	I don't think there'll be much Friction, SP and MP are both quite common in their fields
Storme the Cat	MP makes less sense, but I don't really see any drawbacks to SP
Zelus	Mario Bros RPG games literally all use SP as an example
heckacentipede	my personal context: played FF7-10, pokemon, octopath traveler, a whole bunch of games with different active resource management, etc etc so i would consider myself the demographic of player that is familiar with different terminology and can switch smoothly since every game uses their own (similar) terms
Thierry	Aight so let me rephrase this because I feel we all agree: SP might have slightly more friction than MP, but never enough to justify letting immersion take a hit?
heckacentipede	^^^
Zelus	Yes
Papy	yes
Zelus	Every single time
Soleil	Either is fine to me, I don't feel very strongly over one or the other.
Storme the Cat	I don't even think SP has that much friction
Zelus	Agreed
Thierry	@Soleil aren't you the one that cares the most since MP is less on point regarding the lore?
Soleil	I mean I think Garl throwing an apple at Zale's head is pretty magical. Thierry react:
Zelus
Storme the Cat	You would get assumptions like that.
Papy	yeah he instantly consumes that apple, magic must be involved
Thierry	Appreciate all the comments people, the perspective really helps!
Zelus	The magical part is that throwing an apple at someone's head heals them rather than gives them a concussion
Soleil	If the switch to MP is bothering you because it slightly contradicts the lore, then I think switch it back. Thierry react:
Thierry	The response to Garl so far tells me he'll be able to get away with a lot haha
Storme the Cat	I'm sure she's joking, but there would probably actually be some talk about how Garl's apple is some form of magic.
Zelus	Thierry I'm sure this is a little off-topic, but has it been considered to have Garl toss a food item to an ally who then throw it in the air to gobble it?
Zelus	I can show you a clip as an example
Thierry	We're trying to avoid per skill x per target custom animations to be able to do more content overall (namely enemy count and villager varieties)
Thierry	Plus there's just a retro feel to that apple thing
Zelus	Gotcha
Thierry	And it got the internet to laugh and comment, which is not always easy to do
Storme the Cat	I already like the sandwich thing
StarHawk	Soleil: Either is fine to me, I don't feel very strongly over one or the other. I think I gotta agree with Soleil for this debacle
Thierry	Haha, yeah I guess turning the apple into a sandwich is kind of magical
Zelus	Thierry just to ask, does Garl have no magical ability, or is he using some sort of mana enhancing to allow the apple to have additional immediate healing effects Thierry react:
Soleil	I've played some RPG's that interchange between MP and SP and it's never something that like really bothers me.
StarHawk	Garl has a magical personality, obviously Thierry reacts:
Storme the Cat	Zelus: Thierry just to ask, does Garl have no magical ability, or is he using some sort of mana enhancing to allow the apple to have additional immediate healing effects These are exactly the kind of questions and discussions I was talking about.
Papy	omg thierry did a
Zelus	Because unless there are other "spoiler" skills that are in no way mana related, if the apple is our only case then I think I know why Thierry is having a hard time deciding
Soleil	cow strikes again
Papy	it's been 84 years...
Zelus	Yep.
StarHawk	honestly I feel like we hype up the cows too much
StarHawk	its supposed to mean there is no answer Thierry react:
StarHawk	yet
Soleil	It means an acknowledgement of your existence but no answer one way or the other.
Thierry	It specifically means that it doesn't necessarily mean you were on to something
Zelus	So under the assumption that it is involving magic, then either system works, Thierry I see why this is so back and forth for you
Thierry	The ting is not all things have to be magic even for say Zale
Thierry	What if he dashes and does a heavy sword strike in a straight line?
Later
Thierry	It's not necessarily about all everyone having magic powers or not, it's that the "special moves" you can do in battle don't have to all be spells
Later
Thierry	Maybe I worded it poorly, but SP was always the 100% best choice for consistency with the lore, the only question was whether friction compared to MP was a big enough concern to justify changing to that
Thierry	And thanks to all of you we have established a firm no
Later
Zelus	I'd be shocked if people dropped the game because you didn't choose MP
Later
Thierry	Dropping the game is a bit extreme, but in the player's subconscious friction builds up frustration and disinterest
Later
Thierry	eventually you just don't feel like playing anymore, or ever again, but you'll rarely point out the exact reason
Later
Thierry	it compounds in countless ways

Takeaways

• Although the final game uses "Mana Points" (MP) to refer to the battle currency used to perform skills, it is technically more lore-accurate for this to be referred to as "Skill Points" (SP), since certain types of skills do not require any magic. For example, Garl does not use magic in order to throw an apple during Nourish. MP was ultimately chosen over SP due to MP having potentially slightly less gameplay-onboarding friction.

March 25, 2021

Conversation

#sos-fanart
moka	Here is a small thing I made in my spare time Wyrd breaking a wooden board!
moka	(if anyone is wondering what the black thing under the wooden board is it's supposed to be concrete blocks but I messed up Thier drawings)
Thierry	YES
JustDenys1	test your might
moka	Do we know how good wyrd is at karate?
Thierry	Fairly good

Takeaways

• Wyrd is fairly good at karate.

April 16, 2021

Conversation

#general
Zelus	@Soleil Curious, what do you think of Lore Grimoires in relation to the books we saw on the shelf?
Later
Soleil	@Zelus: @Soleil Curious, what do you think of Lore Grimoires in relation to the books we saw on the shelf? Idk, I have no idea what a lore grimoire is besides what was explained in the stream
Later
Zelus	@Soleil: Idk, I have no idea what a lore grimoire is besides what was explained in the stream Basically if you touch someone/something with it, from what I understand it writes out their story
Soleil	I thought the books in the Archives are just normal books The Archivist wrote out manually. Thierry react:

Takeaways

• The Archivist wrote his books manually.

September 3, 2021

Conversation

#off-topic
Red Ed	A little disappointed that my one legitimate question concerning lore for Sea of Stars has gone unanswered.
Thierry	@Red Ed: A little disappointed that my one legitimate question concerning lore for Sea of Stars has gone unanswered. I'm here what's the question?
Thierry	Quick before Kamme sends us to #on-topic
Red Ed	Oh! I think I asked if there had ever been a Solstice Warrior who could wield both Sun and Moon powers, like if they were born during an eclipse or something
Thierry	No
Red Ed	Ahh
Thierry	When it comes to what some refer to as the "Saboverse", the equinox grants some sensitivity to magic having to do with seasons but that's for Book 3 if we ever make it
Thierry	Hold on let me look up sensitivy
Thierry	Maybe I should have said affinity but it's not entirely correct either
Soleil	maybe compatibility? Thierry react:
Thierry	Whichever word is defined as "acute innate potential towards" is what I meant

Takeaways

• There has never been a Solstice Warrior who could wield both Sun and Moon powers.
• The equinox grants acute innate potential towards magic related with seasons.
• Book 3, Sabotage Studio's upcoming third video game, could touch upon the magic of seasons.

September 19, 2021

Conversation

#general
Meridian	Hurl is so good, the ability to group people together
Meridian	Hope (and assume) there will be other positioning moves
Thierry	@Meridian: Hurl is so good, the ability to group people together That's one metaphor about Garl I wasn't expecting anyone to get, let alone before release. Cheers!
Thierry	Position will remain light as to not turn into deep strategy considerations, but there's more coming for sure
Thierry	It's more about showing off and creating your favorite synergies than a hard requirement though

Takeaways

• During gameplay, Garl's skill, Hurl, tosses one enemy towards another enemy, bringing them together. This is also a metaphor about Garl's ability to bring people together.

May 11, 2023

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
MiszczFezorowski	Has Garl just triple standard attacked? https://youtu.be/sCyYq28lnsA?t=2203
Thierry	@MiszczFezorowski: Has Garl just triple standard attacked? https://youtu.be/sCyYq28lnsA?t&=2203 that was a test that we didn't keep
Later
Stamway	Would be cool if there wasn't a two attack limit so garl could just beat up an enemy forever
Later
Thierry	@Stamway: Would be cool if there wasn't a two attack limit so garl could just beat up an enemy forever to the contrary, it was removed specifically because the third hit could sort of feel like he was bullying the target which doesn't fit his vibe at all

Takeaways

• During the game's development, Garl was able to attack three times in a row with a timed regular attack, rather than two times in a row like in the final game. This gameplay feature was removed because it could give the impression of bullying the target, which does not fit Garl's personality.

October 10, 2023

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
Quincy	That cutscene has been coming up a few times recently because people seem to wonder why Aephorul was allowed to live. I personally think it's because Resh'an wants to redeem his friend, and getting humbled by mortals might make him more receptive now. And maybe Resh'an can't personally undo some of Aephorul's gross atrocities despite having the power to stop Aephorul himself, so he needs Aephorul to fix that.
Later
Thierry	@Quincy: That cutscene has been coming up a few times recently because people seem to wonder why Aephorul was allowed to live. I personally think it's because Resh'an wants to redeem his friend, and getting humbled by mortals might make him more receptive now. And maybe Resh'an can't personally undo some of Aephorul's gross atrocities despite having the power to stop Aephorul himself, so he needs Aephorul to fix that.

Takeaways

• During the ending cutscene, Aephorul is allowed to live, which confuses some players. An accurate interpretation for this story moment is that Resh'an wants to redeem his friend, and getting humbled by mortals may make him more receptive now. Resh'an can't personally undo some of Aephorul's atrocities despite having the power to stop Aephorul himself, so he needs Aephorul to fix them.

October 31, 2023

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
Soleil	They used generic sprites for the retro feel, but the brown-haired woman is Serai, right? SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
Rex	Based on the tips on the back of the head, it’s possible
Soleil	Or maybe one the ones in line?
Later
Thierry	@Soleil: They used generic sprites for the retro feel, but the brown-haired woman is Serai, right? absolutely not

Takeaways

• The brown-haired woman during The Catalyst flashback cutscene in Sky Base is not Seraï.

March 6, 2024

Conversation

#general
Stamway	Evan: Clocko lifts forks like nobody ever has Clocko is ripped as hell
Later
Soleil	Stamway: Clocko is ripped as hell btw, I feel like it's been pointed out before, but Valtraid is ripped and has to rip his shirt. I only just got this pun yesterday
Later
Thierry	@Soleil: btw, I feel like it's been pointed out before, but Valtraid is ripped and has to rip his shirt. I only just got this pun yesterday Oh I'll indulge this tangent. The 100% narrative-accurate thing here is that he becomes as ripped as his shirt, so there's a thing where he really needs to make it count when he does it as the outcome is never exactly the same

Takeaways

• It is not depicted in-game with complete accuracy, but lore-wise, Valtraid becomes as ripped as his shirt, so it is important that he takes full advantage of the result, since the outcome is different each time.

June 26, 2024

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
Shard The Lunar Sage	@Thierry Did you see the earlier discussion we were having about the Dweller of Torment and Divine spirits?
Thierry	@Shard The Lunar Sage: @Thierry Did you see the earlier discussion we were having about the Dweller of Torment and Divine spirits? Mmm?
Shard The Lunar Sage	⁠ #sos-spoilers⁠ At about this spot
Thierry	@Shard The Lunar Sage: #sos-spoilers⁠ At about this spot What about it?
Shard The Lunar Sage	Just wondered about the theories on what Torment used to be or was created from
Shard The Lunar Sage	Clearly it's a Gorilla form, but we are not sure if it was Matriarchs mate, one of her children, or just what it grew into since it was eating her children
Thierry	@Shard The Lunar Sage: Clearly it's a Gorilla form, but we are not sure if it was Matriarchs mate, one of her children, or just what it grew into since it was eating her children
Thierry	Random fun and unrelated fact, did you know flamingo(e?)s are pink only because they eat shrimp?
Mysti	is that true?
Shard The Lunar Sage	I had not heard that
wirbest	⁠ #off-topic
Shard The Lunar Sage	lol
MiszczFezorowski	Thierry: Random fun and unrelated fact, did you know flamingo(e?)s are pink only because they eat shrimp? Yes, did you know they feed their babies red milk from their beaks?
MFC	where's kamme to banish him to off-topic
Claymore729
Thierry	I'm just indirectly answering Shard's question but sure let's miss the point
Thierry	Guess I'll save it for off-topic then
Simply Resharkable	So do Dwellers adapt based on their diet?
Mysti	Did you know that flamingos are named flamingos because if you attack them they are covered in flames and go after you?
MFC	so hm... dwellers are what they eat?
wirbest	So they are what they eat, is what you're saying
Thierry	The real question is are Dweller questions the usual go to diversion when leaking stuff in #⁠general
Thierry	But please carry on
Simply Resharkable	Woe eats people ant looks kinda like a person, Torment eats gorillas and looks like a gorilla
Thierry	@Simply Resharkable: Woe eats people ant looks kinda like a person, Torment eats gorillas and looks like a gorilla
Thierry	Let's tag Soleil to ask whether Dread eats squids
Thierry	Now what if a Dweller fed on Dweller

Takeaways

• Similarly to how flamingoes turn pink due to a pigment present in their prey, a Dweller's appearance is a result of their diet. It's unclear whether these changes are permanent or reversible like in flamingoes.
• A Dweller feeding on Dwellers is an idea the Fleshmancer could have experimented with.

July 29, 2024

Conversation

#sos-spoilers
field	What is the common interpretation for how to resolve the paradox of substituting B'st for Garl when our heroes use the Chronophage? The best I could come up with is that Resh'an recomposed the timelines so that the past for our heroes becomes some convenient union of the old and new timelines, but I'm not entirely satisfied with it.
field	At first I was thinking that maybe B'st posed as Garl after he was struck so that our heroes were none the wiser, but that would require that he speak in Garl's voice and have enough of Garl's knowledge that nothing would have looked amiss in the past (especially when completing the tasks while he was on borrowed time), allowing the timeline to otherwise unfold the same way.
Storme the Cat	@field: What is the common interpretation for how to resolve the paradox of substituting B'st for Garl when our heroes use the Chronophage? The best I could come up with is that Resh'an recomposed the timelines so that the past for our heroes becomes some convenient union of the old and new timelines, but I'm not entirely satisfied with it. I think this was pretty much answered in this stream (32:44-37:11)
field	@Storme the Cat: I think this was pretty much answered in this stream (32:44-37:11) Thanks, I'll check it out!
Storme the Cat	Or at least I hope this answers your question haha
field	Hmm, it definitely cleared up some of my question(s).
field	The temporary time loop thing makes sense. But I'm still having trouble understanding how B'st ended up in Garl's grave in the heros' present end-game timeline (after using the Chronophage).
Thierry	I assume it's understood that Resh'an's device means time devourer?
Shard The Lunar Sage	I thought it was a copy paste sort of thing
Thierry	He's a video editor of reality, yes (if that helps, does that help?)
Shard The Lunar Sage	@Thierry: I assume it's understood that Resh'an's device means time devourer? I did think timelines or sections of time were being discarded
field	@Thierry: I assume it's understood that Resh'an's device means time devourer? Was it your intention for us to believe that Resh'an finally recomposes the timelines via the Chronophage?
Thierry
Thierry	The time loop puts everything on hold and allows a new exit point. "When" the time loop sits on the timeline is irrelevant, it happens chronologically to whenever it is reentered (tl:dr Garl made the bread)
MiszczFezorowski	Is the bread the only big volcano bread that was ever created across all the timelines including the discarded/nonexistant ones?
MiszczFezorowski	I understand that when we see the bread being made it is Garl, and that Garl we get back has the experience and memories of having made the bread.
Thierry	So if everyone's still okay, events occurring in a time loop occur in reality in synch
MiszczFezorowski	MiszczFezorowski: I understand that when we see the bread being made it is Garl, and that Garl we get back has the experience and memories of having made the bread. But had B'st had to make a bread that was later devoured from existance along with that part of the timeline?
Thierry	And if you're not okay (B'st had to take the hit to reach the exit point of the time loop, but that's it. he didn't play at being Garl, or get buried, they swapped bodies in the grave directly. Have you ever noticed it was B'st that went into the portal and it was Garl that came out?)
Thierry	@MiszczFezorowski: I understand that when we see the bread being made it is Garl, and that Garl we get back has the experience and memories of having made the bread. That's because it all actually happened before entering the time loop, which caused a change that happened the moment we entered the time loop (so anything that happened prior still happened)
Thierry	We can also give up, you know
field	@Thierry: And if you're not okay (B'st had to take the hit to reach the exit point of the time loop, but that's it. he didn't play at being Garl, or get buried, they swapped bodies in the grave directly. Have you ever noticed it was B'st that went into the portal and it was Garl that came out?) This explains quite a bit. Thanks for walking us through it, Thierry.
MiszczFezorowski	Thierry: We can also give up, you know You understand how it works so it can be understood by others too
MiszczFezorowski	It might maybe require some more time or attempts at it but we should eventually get it.
MiszczFezorowski	Thierry: That's because it all actually happened before entering the time loop, which caused a change that happened the moment we entered the time loop (so anything that happened prior still happened) So... Before we entered the Chronophage, it was Garl who was in the grave and the second we came out it swapped to B'st?
Simply Resharkable	A new element was added from the present, so in the present and nowhere before some elements changed in accordance
Thierry	so basically if you created a time loop around an apple tree
Thierry	you could just enter the portal and pick apples forever
Thierry	the tree doesn't go back in time to not having had apples in the first place back when you created the time loop
Thierry	it's a copy not the literal past
Simply Resharkable	Was the chronophage like a hard drive containing that loop, then taking Garl was just like ctrl+X from there?
MiszczFezorowski	Right, so if we leave a pear there and someone is watching the tree as we enter the Chronophage, the pear will magically appear the moment we leave.
Thierry	if the pear on your table in reality is present on the ground in the time loop, and you hot swap it for an apple, there will be an apple on your table instead of a pear when you get back
Ani	time is alchemic
MiszczFezorowski	If someone took a bite from the pear before: will they remember the taste of the pear or the apple? (Pear?) Will there be a bite mark on the apple? (No?)
Ani	(law of equivalent of exchange or something)
Thierry	If you take a bite of the apple and you're not watching it still makes a sound but only in the future
Thierry	(for the record this was a troll response)
Ani	from what little i managed to gleam over, it sounds like if the pear was bitten into before you took it and replaced it with an apple, you'd still walk out with a bitten pear
Staurolith	Hopefully I'm understanding this right; if B'st hadnt replaced Garl, then just simply taking Garl out of the loop would have just kept the loop going (to go with that apple tree example of it having constant apples? Garl would just stay there?)
Ani	you don't pierce the veil from when the pear was bitten; you are simply replacing the object, and any and all consequences of the actions done to that object persist across instances of this chronoalchemic timeline structure
Thierry	@Staurolith: Hopefully I'm understanding this right; if B'st hadnt replaced Garl, then just simply taking Garl out of the loop would have just kept the loop going (to go with that apple tree example of it having constant apples? Garl would just stay there?) woah woah
Thierry	@Ani: time is alchemic so
Thierry	this
Thierry	in this time house we maintain balance
Thierry	alchemy doesn't create, it transmutes
Ani	I (sorta) GOT IT LET'S GOOO
Thierry	you can make something stronger by combining and attaining something that is more than the sum of its part through synergy
Ani	Thierry: you can make something stronger by combining and attaining something that is more than the sum of its part through synergy i assume that if, for example, b'st entered to replace garl after he got shot, garl would leave still dead?
Ani	since nothing regarding his circumstances actually changed
Pavla	And wasn't the pear he ate from Yomara also somehow important in this?
Thierry	@Ani: i assume that if, for example, b'st entered to replace garl after he got shot, garl would leave still dead? well, he would leave still shot
Thierry	alchemy in a nutshell:
Thierry
Thierry	@Pavla: And wasn't the pear he ate from Yomara also somehow important in this? we're not getting into that today, but yes
Soleil	Right now my interpretation is the swap in The Chronophage couldn't happen if B'st wasn't perfectly Garl-shaped, and also most souls wouldn't be compatible and would have faded, but Garl's stayed thanks to the pear.
Thierry	@Soleil: Right now my interpretation is the swap in The Chronophage couldn't happen if B'st wasn't perfectly Garl-shaped, and also most souls wouldn't be compatible and would have faded, but Garl's stayed thanks to the pear. so
Thierry	the main thing was finding someone that could survive the hit
Soleil	Thierry: the main thing was finding someone that could survive the hit Oh okay! So the transformation wasn't important and more performative?
Thierry	assuming the shape was so Aephy would still shoot
Thierry	perfomative was mandatory to reach the time loop's end (and thus potential exit) point
Thierry	when the exit conditions are met
Thierry	and you're not going to believe this part
Thierry	the time loop resolves
Thierry	or gets consumed
Thierry	or
Thierry	devoured
Soleil	My mind is blown
Staurolith	phage'd
Thierry	@Soleil: My mind is blown same here
Thierry	can I go ahead and tell my boss the device's name made sense after all?
Thierry	because we're nowhere near the real question yet
Staurolith	Yeah I'd say so; a lot makes so much more sense.
field	Please do. And what is the real question?
Soleil	Where did the devoured time go?
field	(Fwiw, when I first looked up the word it came up as "time waster." )
Thierry	that would be the game itself uhuhu
MiszczFezorowski	One more question if I can. Is the loop we enter by the chronophage not only the timestop loop, but also a larger loop that resolves sometime after Garl* gets shot? time is resumed. (Potentially at World Eater but I have yet to piece it all together. [We wouldn't see the timeshards because we are not atuned])
Thierry	@MiszczFezorowski: One more question if I can. Is the loop we enter by the chronophage not only the timestop loop, but also a larger loop that resolves sometime after Garl* gets shot? time is resumed. (Potentially at World Eater but I have yet to piece it all together. [We wouldn't see the timeshards because we are not atuned]) he ended the loop when he snapped his fingers again

Takeaways

• Resh'an is a "video editor of reality".
• The Chronophage is a time devourer.
• The Chronophage doesn't lead to the past but a time loop that repeats a copy of Resh'an's "meeting outside time" with Aephorul. Events within this time loop occur in reality in synch.
• When proper conditions are met, that is Garl gets replaced by someone who will be hit by the Fleshmancer's attack and survive it, the time loop resolves and gets devoured by the Chronophage.
• The Chronophage can't change the events that happen before it is entered, it has no influence over the past and can only affect the present.
• Immediately after being shot by Aephorul, B'st swapped places with Garl's body without experiencing any of the events that followed Garl being shot.
• Alchemy doesn't create things, it transmutes them and with proper synergy its result can be more than the sum of parts used.
• Eating a pear from Yomara's tree was important for Garl's resurrection.

August 29th, 2024

This section is incomplete. You can help by expanding it.

September 19, 2024

Conversation

#sos-spoilers

Shard The Lunar Sage

@Janus: on talk of 'gods' dont z and v mention in the messenger that their power has waned do to people's belief/worship waning? why woulldnt reshans powers work the same way, he is as powerful as people believe he is, wether thats a good or bad thing is still up for determination. fun bonus question, can reshy kill fleshy just because fleshy whole-heartedly believes he could? Resh’an power doesn't come from people believing in him. It comes from Alchemy, hence why he's not God like in the slightest, it's like calling him a really powerful arch mage would be more accurate. Thierry react:

Takeaways

• Resh'an is not a god.
• Resh'an's power comes from his mastery of alchemy, not from people worshipping him.

See Also

• Thierry's Lore Tidbits (The Messenger Wiki)